British Snoring & Sleep Apnoea Association

Well, this was exactly what I was thinking.

However, there is an almost mafia-like aspect to these situations. I suffred in a similar post because I got a wrist injury [i]at work[/i]. I was unable to do part of my job and was bullied because of it. HR were inefective and there was much collusion. Things became so uncomfortable I left.

I'm afraid bullying people out of posts due to injuries or health conditions is common-place.

Anyway, I thought I'd sit back and hope the discrimination case makes them a lot more cautious to the point they won't dare try it again. Mind you from past experience these people always get away with it and do it again and again.

[quote="Mountain"]
I found out today that my manager is actually being sued by a member of staff for disability discrimination :shock: :o seems she has a history of bullying and forcing people with health issues out of their jobs.
[/quote]

Surely this will go in your favour Mountain? If she is known for discriminating against disabilities and is discriminating against yours then you have nothing to worry about. That is what the DDA is for, are you able to speak to a member of HR about your manager?

Well.........

'Technically' I'm not being treated yet, but I was so desperate I bought a CPAP to see if it helped. I does, but the machine doesn't have the capacity to record the apnoeas or lack of so I'm playing things by ear a little. (A bit unethical I know but ...). So whilst things have certainly improved a great deal I do have off days. I've had a couple of health issues lately so I'm kind of dealing with them a step at a time....next step asking for a re-referral as I was unhappy with the outcome of the last one!!! I think when I get to the stage of having a decent xPAP machine & proper monitoring sleep will be even better.

So, on top of the OSA I have cervical myelopathy caused by a ruptured disc at the top of my neck, i.e. my spinal cord is being quite substantially squashed. So I'm waiting for an op for that...taken me a year to get to the MRI stage. Anyway, most days I'm in pain, or in lots of pain. Plus I'm losing feeling in my limbs, especially my hands. Put the two together and by 3pm I'm about at my limit. On a 'tired day' things are obviously worse. If I take strong pain killers such as co-codamol it's not good for OSA.

The problem is they've sent me away to lose weight and reduce my neck size. Firstly I have a thick neck, I've been super fit for a lot of my life and still had a thick neck LOL. Secondly, some days I can barely walk never mind go for a jog. Realistically, until my dodgy neck is fixed and I've fully recovered, which will be many months, I'm pretty restricted exercise-wise. (I was pretty annoyed that when I pointed this out at the sleep clinic they just said , NICE says no!!!).

And finally........ :)
When I was persuaded to take up a permanent contract I was offered two jobs at the same time. I chose my job because of the working hours that fit in around family life much better. I moved closer to work due to spending too long driving because of the hours missing rush-hour.

Moving my hours back 1 1/2 hours will double the time I spend in traffic. Sitting in a car makes by neck & back worse.

And the very last final thing :D
I found out today that my manager is actually being sued by a member of staff for disability discrimination :shock: :o seems she has a history of bullying and forcing people with health issues out of their jobs.

It's all a pity really, as I love my job and my 'own' department is great. I'm now managed by a tyrant from another dept. My old manager was lovely, would have been on my side and worked something out. Unfortunately she retired last year :cry:

Either private message or phonecall is fine.

If they start consulting with you over work hours then you need to explain about the detriment it will cause. Any Manager with common sense wouldn't go ahead with that then, surley. I'm sure a tribunal would side with you as long as you could provide explanation as to why the proposed hours would not suit.

Be clear that the hours will not work for you, if they don't.

Saying that, why won't the new hours work for you? Now I have my mask and I am being treated - I think I could work any hours my work throws at me, realistically ofcourse. For example working 8 - 4, would be no different working 12 - 9 as CPAP gives me a full nights sleep regardless.

That is very kind of you Saturdaynight.

Would you prefer a private message?

I'm specifically interested in the working hours aspect. i.e. what are my options if they try to change my core hours to ones that will be more detrimental to the condition.

On my lunch at the moment so I'm a bit restricted time-wise....need a coffee to see me through 'till hometime :)

I am a HR Manager and have severe OSA.... if anyone wants any advice please feel free to contact me.

Cheers

Yeah, all good points. Particularly true that some managers confuse bullying with a 'management challenge' :shock:

I think a lot of (not all!) people that end up in positions of authority secure those positions by having a mercenary or manipulative nature. Some being downright psychotic! :lol: It rarely seems to stem from any talent.

It all depends on the size of the organisation. One the size of the NHS can't really get away with most financial/staffing/resource arguments. They would automatically use the, 'he never told us' get out clause though.

So, best just to tell them enough, but not any more detail than I have too. Personally, I don't like the fact that some manager with a personality disorder knows anything about my health...but needs must.

Quite amazing how a few weeks ago all was well, but as soon as a couple of health issues crop up it all changes. I think more so because I'm almost never off sick. Malingerers tend to get treated better and pandered too it seems. I might have to start playing the poorly card a bit more until I'm sorted :) :)

[quote="Mountain"]Yeah, there's a lot of restructuring going on Headthrob, and of course there are a lot of 'managers' that will use health problems to force their agenda. Bullies in other words, the NHS is a haven for bullying managers, especially eostrogen charged aggressive female ones!!!

It's tricky to know what to do isn't it? I thought better to tell them ASAP and cover myself. I also told them about my neck issues and got an irritated, 'well, you've never told [i]me[/i] about this'. Erm, I only saw the MRI last week :roll: I'd have expected just a little more support after telling them my spinal cord is compressed by two thirds at the top of my neck :shock:

For me, I start work early and finish early. This has two advantages, firstly I miss rush-hour traffic in both directions.

But also......the 'doing' part of my job that requires my concentration is the first few hours- luckily this coincides with my most alert part of the day. The last half of the day is pretty much desk based procedural management stuff and the worst outcome would be a typo or something badly written.

My manager has staffing issues in another area that I'm qualified to cover, so they are trying to find a way of making me cover that later in the day. However this will involve a longer and later day. This would be pretty disastrous for me I think. I'm bound to mess up at the end of a longer day!!! Plus it will double the amount of time I spend in the car :-(

I think legally they would have a very hard time changing my hours to make things [b]more difficult[/b] for me when they are legally obligated to do the opposite.

The hospital is already being sued by a former employee for disability discrimination due to OSA!!! (A staff member with OSA fell to sleep at work and was dismissed).[/quote]

Do you know the person who was dismissed? They might be a valuable source of information as you both worked for the same company with the same procedures.

Regarding the staffing issues and possbily being moved to another area do you have any other reasons why you can't do this? From experience I've heard people say in my company they can't do something due to health reasons (Which are valid points) and immediatly the manager see's this as a challenge or a their eyes light up like "this will be a good one to manage out of the business" where as if someone sais I can't because I am looking after a relative or they have kids they tend not to challenge this, almost like they know they have no change of winning the battle... very weird people are.

I tend to keep things very private as it's always easier to make up excuses afterwards as to why you never told them at the time i.e I didn't tell work as I didn't want to be a burden on the company, I didn't actually know what was wrong with me so didn't see the point, I like to leave my problems at the door as you don't want it affecting your work. It is a tough one but you cant really take back and medical condition and say you don't have it if they decicde to make things difficult or try to manage you out of the business.

I think you need to know a little about the place you work aswell i.e. are they looking for people to leave or cut costs, also if you have any internal intranet sites you can look at like a HR intra page that lays out the companies policy on things like this (I presume the NHS should have one you can view) The reason I mention this is although the DDA covers reasonable adjustments ect... if the company cannot make these or your job is primarily something where you need to lift and carry items for example and you've done your back in they could just say they cannot make adjustments as that is your primary function thertefore you are unable to do your job. Companies have sneaky ways of working, similar to the example I have given this happened to someone I use to work with and although they dont get dismissed they put them in a pool for 6 months where you can search for another job in the company to suit your needs... unfortunatly this pool is a very good way of getting rid of them as many people cant find another job or are secretly discriminated against further and not offered another job and thereofore have to leave after 6 months.

It's such a shame it a US Vs THEM situation... they are human beings after all and it's not as if your manager is paying you out of their own pocket and surely it's harder to take the hard line with you than than to be supportive?

On the female boss note I have had mainly female managers and all off them were poor maangers and chose to bully instead of manage people, the two male managers I have had have been amazing! Most of my female managers had no life outside of the company and my male managers live to work as appose to working to live, it works so much better when work is not the reason for liveing

Yeah, it's a tough one!

My reasoning is this, if I don't tell them then if I am [i]forced[/i] to use the DDA, or now the equality act in the future they will plead ignorance. If I have told them I will be able to invoke these acts should the need arise!

This was helpful advices from a disability forum.

"Your employer has a legal obligation (that will get even stricter with the Equality Act) to consider "reasonable adjustments" for you, if and as soon as they know about your condition. Such adjustments can include anything from specialist equipment to [b]flexible working hours[/b], to changes to duties, to working from home, to rest breaks, etc. It's meant to be about [b]the individual's needs.[/b]

An employer is NOT legally obligated to actually give you any adjustments but they must be able to give a strong business reason why it is not possible. Most large companies are expected to be able to make "adjustments". Smaller companies/organisations can argue that it is not possible and get away with it because being smaller with less employers does create less scope for flexibility. So a big organisation would be expected to allow someone who worked shifts to work different hours from the 'standard' or not to have to do certain shifts because they should have enough employees to cover all hours the business needed.

The "reasonable adjustments" an employer should consider do include allowing paid time off for medical appointments. Most employers will do this as almost standard now for anyone with a disability. They should also be prepared to log your sick leave for your disability separately from other sick leave so that you do not end up getting disciplined over disability related absences."

To be honest, from past experience, and knowing people bullied and forced out of jobs, these day's I wouldn't hesitate to go straight to a employment solicitor.
A colleague with another life long condition has just gone through a hell of a time with 'the management' and only when her union threatened legal action did they back off. A couple of 'the management' despise her now but wouldn't dare bully her again!

Anyway, forewarned is forearmed and all that! certainly from experience it is worth remembering just how mercenary some employers can be!!!

I'm in a real "do i/don't i" situation. There's pros and cons to both arguments. I feel that if you mention it first then it will look better on you than if they find out through a mistake that you made or have noticed your deterioration?

Decisions, decisions...

LOL tell me about it! Then there's those that play the system who seem to be untouchable.

Unfortunately, most of these 'managers' wouldn't last 5 minutes in the real world. I've worked in a lot of jobs in my time, and been self employed, and I'm constantly amazed by the management ineptitude.

The qualification criteria does seem to be based on a total lack of life experience, an inability to understand or communicate with people, petty officiousness and a vindictive streak!!! Meow :evil:
Some of it is a way of avoiding responsibility for decisions i.e. practically the whole world has to be involved to make one!!!!

It does seem like they've condemned me in advance. When in reality, when my neck is fixed and I'm sleeping better all will be well. I worked there for 4 years as a locum (with undiagnosed OSA ). Turned the dept. around and they persuaded me to stay on. A year later just because I get a couple of treatable health issues I get this crap.

Anyway, didn't go in today as I didn't sleep a wink...worry & stress. Woke up with a numb face, headache and purple hands due to my squashed spinal cord. I shall see my Doc tomorrow and suggest any change in hours will be detrimental to my condition.

Mostly these people get away with things due to 'mass bullying', and I'm not one to be bullied!
But hey, if they make me redundant that's OK I get a nice payout. I get job offers from agencies most weeks due to a huge skill shortage in my area of expertise.

Problem is I like my job and my staff/colleagues in my own dept. We have a friendly supportive smooth running department. Unfortunately when these clueless, bullying senior managers get involved it all goes to pot :(

Rant over :lol:

I worked for the NHS myself a few years ago and went through a stage where i was off work due to a foot injury . I have never known anything like it absolute shambles would be a understatement numerous trips to occupational health , doctors and them keeping me off work for well over 6 months even though i was telling them i wanted to return to work .
In the end they would not find me suitable light duties to do and would not return me back to work , i got so fed up whilst being off work that i found another job and left .

I agree with Mac's comments sometimes its better not to disclose too much info regarding your health unless its really needed .

Hope things sort themselves out for you Mountain ,

Regards,

Yeah, there's a lot of restructuring going on Headthrob, and of course there are a lot of 'managers' that will use health problems to force their agenda. Bullies in other words, the NHS is a haven for bullying managers, especially eostrogen charged aggressive female ones!!!

It's tricky to know what to do isn't it? I thought better to tell them ASAP and cover myself. I also told them about my neck issues and got an irritated, 'well, you've never told [i]me[/i] about this'. Erm, I only saw the MRI last week :roll: I'd have expected just a little more support after telling them my spinal cord is compressed by two thirds at the top of my neck :shock:

For me, I start work early and finish early. This has two advantages, firstly I miss rush-hour traffic in both directions.

But also......the 'doing' part of my job that requires my concentration is the first few hours- luckily this coincides with my most alert part of the day. The last half of the day is pretty much desk based procedural management stuff and the worst outcome would be a typo or something badly written.

My manager has staffing issues in another area that I'm qualified to cover, so they are trying to find a way of making me cover that later in the day. However this will involve a longer and later day. This would be pretty disastrous for me I think. I'm bound to mess up at the end of a longer day!!! Plus it will double the amount of time I spend in the car :-(

I think legally they would have a very hard time changing my hours to make things [b]more difficult[/b] for me when they are legally obligated to do the opposite.

The hospital is already being sued by a former employee for disability discrimination due to OSA!!! (A staff member with OSA fell to sleep at work and was dismissed).

I'm sorry to hear that you are both still being discriminated against in the work place. And also that it isn't clear whether disclosure is a good thing. I hope you will come to a positive outcome soon. Certainly it's worth waiting for actual results to help your case.

Is there no Disability Association that could advise you?

And as for falling asleep at the computer screen, I used to do so as well and wonder why there were pages of odd symbols in continuous lines that I didn't remember entering ... luckily nobody looked over my shoulder in the meantime.

So, sorry I can't advise but you have my greatest sympathy and understanding how frustrating your situations are.

[quote="MAC"]Mountain

I went through the same about 3 years ago it was used against me. I think the sentance they used was "unable to preform his contractual duties"

I had a union etc etc and I was still made redundant.

The occupational nurse also used this to support the company.

If I worked for someone again I would tell them very little

Mac[/quote]

Hi Mac, I'm not an expert on these matters but making you redundant because of your disability is discrimination?

I have a similar work problem, I don't know whether to mention my symptoms to HR or my boss or both? The symptoms are really affecting my work now but I am very good at hiding this, so it hasn't been noticed yet (i think it hasn't). If i tell them, it may make matters worse with an upcoming 'restructuring program' coming up. I have absolutely no attention span, i can't concentrate, my memory is getting worse, sometimes I find myself just staring at the screen. I might just wait until I get my results, so I know what course of action may be taken?