British Snoring & Sleep Apnoea Association

Well, after discovering I had both OSA and a ruptured disc at the top of my neck within a couple of weeks I informed my manager of both issues. Obviously working for the NHS they'll be understanding and supportive

Well, not really at all.
They are 'extremely concerned' about the OSA and it's gone all the way up to the section director! Even though my work has always been above and beyond good, I now have to be assessed for fitness to practice by occy health.

I 'came out' to my colleagues stating that if I'm a bit 'fuzzy' mid afternoon there is a medical reason. I now seem to be ridiculed and the butt of many jokes. I do see the funny side but it's a bit wearing. When I say I'm exhausted today I tend to get, 'I didn't sleep that well last night' etc.

Also, because I need an op on my neck and will perhaps need a few months on light duties when I return they are thinking about changing my hours to a later start and finish and a longer day!!! Possibly the worst thing ever for my OSA. I think the reason that it hasn't impacted on my work is because I start and finish work early so during my working hours I'm at my most alert.

I did point this out to my manager and rather than agree to keeping my hours as they are I got the same 'suitability for the role' malarkey.

Not impressed. I always try to be flexible and understanding with my own staff and always support them as much as I can. Hence everyone loves working in my dept and my staff are loyal , conscientious and hard working. I wouldn't dream of using medical issues as leverage.

Anyway, needed to vent a little. I'm feeling very let down today

Here to listen, which is more than you supervisors appear to be doing.
If your boss isn't listening go higher up.
If you are in a union have a meeting with them.

Duty of employer to make adjustments.

(3)The following are examples of steps which an employer may have to take in relation to a disabled person in order to comply with subsection (1)—
(a)making adjustments to premises;
(b)allocating some of the disabled person’s duties to another person;
(c)transferring him to fill an existing vacancy;
(d)altering his working hours;
(e)assigning him to a different place of work;
(f)allowing him to be absent during working hours for rehabilitation, assessment or treatment;
(g)giving him, or arranging for him to be given, training;
(h)acquiring or modifying equipment;
(i)modifying instructions or reference manuals;
(j)modifying procedures for testing or assessment;
(k)providing a reader or interpreter;
(l)providing supervision.

Aha. Looks like changing my working hours might be problematic for them after all
As I understand this section of the DDA, they are obliged to make sure my working hours are favourable to my condition. So as they already are, changing them to unfavourable hours could constitute a breach of the DDA.

Thanks. I was a bit taken aback today to be honest. I expected better.

Yes, will be having a chat with the union (used to be a negotiator in the past).

I think I may be best to nip it in the bud and say, you're not doing that and quote the DDA. However, after many years in the NHS I'm also aware of how difficult life can be if you stand up to 'the management'.

Just seen this on a DDA 'lawyers' site!
Altering working hours eg. a person who takes medication, which has side effects worse in the morning, is allowed to start work later in the day.

Mountain

I went through the same about 3 years ago it was used against me. I think the sentance they used was "unable to preform his contractual duties"

I had a union etc etc and I was still made redundant.

The occupational nurse also used this to support the company.

If I worked for someone again I would tell them very little

Mac

Hi Mac, I'm not an expert on these matters but making you redundant because of your disability is discrimination?

I have a similar work problem, I don't know whether to mention my symptoms to HR or my boss or both? The symptoms are really affecting my work now but I am very good at hiding this, so it hasn't been noticed yet (i think it hasn't). If i tell them, it may make matters worse with an upcoming 'restructuring program' coming up. I have absolutely no attention span, i can't concentrate, my memory is getting worse, sometimes I find myself just staring at the screen. I might just wait until I get my results, so I know what course of action may be taken?

I'm sorry to hear that you are both still being discriminated against in the work place. And also that it isn't clear whether disclosure is a good thing. I hope you will come to a positive outcome soon. Certainly it's worth waiting for actual results to help your case.

Is there no Disability Association that could advise you?

And as for falling asleep at the computer screen, I used to do so as well and wonder why there were pages of odd symbols in continuous lines that I didn't remember entering ... luckily nobody looked over my shoulder in the meantime.

So, sorry I can't advise but you have my greatest sympathy and understanding how frustrating your situations are.

Yeah, there's a lot of restructuring going on Headthrob, and of course there are a lot of 'managers' that will use health problems to force their agenda. Bullies in other words, the NHS is a haven for bullying managers, especially eostrogen charged aggressive female ones!!!

It's tricky to know what to do isn't it? I thought better to tell them ASAP and cover myself. I also told them about my neck issues and got an irritated, 'well, you've never told me about this'. Erm, I only saw the MRI last week I'd have expected just a little more support after telling them my spinal cord is compressed by two thirds at the top of my neck

For me, I start work early and finish early. This has two advantages, firstly I miss rush-hour traffic in both directions.

But also......the 'doing' part of my job that requires my concentration is the first few hours- luckily this coincides with my most alert part of the day. The last half of the day is pretty much desk based procedural management stuff and the worst outcome would be a typo or something badly written.

My manager has staffing issues in another area that I'm qualified to cover, so they are trying to find a way of making me cover that later in the day. However this will involve a longer and later day. This would be pretty disastrous for me I think. I'm bound to mess up at the end of a longer day!!! Plus it will double the amount of time I spend in the car

I think legally they would have a very hard time changing my hours to make things more difficult for me when they are legally obligated to do the opposite.

The hospital is already being sued by a former employee for disability discrimination due to OSA!!! (A staff member with OSA fell to sleep at work and was dismissed).

I worked for the NHS myself a few years ago and went through a stage where i was off work due to a foot injury . I have never known anything like it absolute shambles would be a understatement numerous trips to occupational health , doctors and them keeping me off work for well over 6 months even though i was telling them i wanted to return to work .
In the end they would not find me suitable light duties to do and would not return me back to work , i got so fed up whilst being off work that i found another job and left .

I agree with Mac's comments sometimes its better not to disclose too much info regarding your health unless its really needed .

Hope things sort themselves out for you Mountain ,

Regards,

LOL tell me about it! Then there's those that play the system who seem to be untouchable.

Unfortunately, most of these 'managers' wouldn't last 5 minutes in the real world. I've worked in a lot of jobs in my time, and been self employed, and I'm constantly amazed by the management ineptitude.

The qualification criteria does seem to be based on a total lack of life experience, an inability to understand or communicate with people, petty officiousness and a vindictive streak!!! Meow
Some of it is a way of avoiding responsibility for decisions i.e. practically the whole world has to be involved to make one!!!!

It does seem like they've condemned me in advance. When in reality, when my neck is fixed and I'm sleeping better all will be well. I worked there for 4 years as a locum (with undiagnosed OSA ). Turned the dept. around and they persuaded me to stay on. A year later just because I get a couple of treatable health issues I get this crap.

Anyway, didn't go in today as I didn't sleep a wink...worry & stress. Woke up with a numb face, headache and purple hands due to my squashed spinal cord. I shall see my Doc tomorrow and suggest any change in hours will be detrimental to my condition.

Mostly these people get away with things due to 'mass bullying', and I'm not one to be bullied!
But hey, if they make me redundant that's OK I get a nice payout. I get job offers from agencies most weeks due to a huge skill shortage in my area of expertise.

Problem is I like my job and my staff/colleagues in my own dept. We have a friendly supportive smooth running department. Unfortunately when these clueless, bullying senior managers get involved it all goes to pot

Rant over

I'm in a real "do i/don't i" situation. There's pros and cons to both arguments. I feel that if you mention it first then it will look better on you than if they find out through a mistake that you made or have noticed your deterioration?

Decisions, decisions...

Yeah, it's a tough one!

My reasoning is this, if I don't tell them then if I am forced to use the DDA, or now the equality act in the future they will plead ignorance. If I have told them I will be able to invoke these acts should the need arise!

This was helpful advices from a disability forum.

"Your employer has a legal obligation (that will get even stricter with the Equality Act) to consider "reasonable adjustments" for you, if and as soon as they know about your condition. Such adjustments can include anything from specialist equipment to flexible working hours, to changes to duties, to working from home, to rest breaks, etc. It's meant to be about the individual's needs.

An employer is NOT legally obligated to actually give you any adjustments but they must be able to give a strong business reason why it is not possible. Most large companies are expected to be able to make "adjustments". Smaller companies/organisations can argue that it is not possible and get away with it because being smaller with less employers does create less scope for flexibility. So a big organisation would be expected to allow someone who worked shifts to work different hours from the 'standard' or not to have to do certain shifts because they should have enough employees to cover all hours the business needed.

The "reasonable adjustments" an employer should consider do include allowing paid time off for medical appointments. Most employers will do this as almost standard now for anyone with a disability. They should also be prepared to log your sick leave for your disability separately from other sick leave so that you do not end up getting disciplined over disability related absences."

To be honest, from past experience, and knowing people bullied and forced out of jobs, these day's I wouldn't hesitate to go straight to a employment solicitor.
A colleague with another life long condition has just gone through a hell of a time with 'the management' and only when her union threatened legal action did they back off. A couple of 'the management' despise her now but wouldn't dare bully her again!

Anyway, forewarned is forearmed and all that! certainly from experience it is worth remembering just how mercenary some employers can be!!!

Do you know the person who was dismissed? They might be a valuable source of information as you both worked for the same company with the same procedures.

Regarding the staffing issues and possbily being moved to another area do you have any other reasons why you can't do this? From experience I've heard people say in my company they can't do something due to health reasons (Which are valid points) and immediatly the manager see's this as a challenge or a their eyes light up like "this will be a good one to manage out of the business" where as if someone sais I can't because I am looking after a relative or they have kids they tend not to challenge this, almost like they know they have no change of winning the battle... very weird people are.

I tend to keep things very private as it's always easier to make up excuses afterwards as to why you never told them at the time i.e I didn't tell work as I didn't want to be a burden on the company, I didn't actually know what was wrong with me so didn't see the point, I like to leave my problems at the door as you don't want it affecting your work. It is a tough one but you cant really take back and medical condition and say you don't have it if they decicde to make things difficult or try to manage you out of the business.

I think you need to know a little about the place you work aswell i.e. are they looking for people to leave or cut costs, also if you have any internal intranet sites you can look at like a HR intra page that lays out the companies policy on things like this (I presume the NHS should have one you can view) The reason I mention this is although the DDA covers reasonable adjustments ect... if the company cannot make these or your job is primarily something where you need to lift and carry items for example and you've done your back in they could just say they cannot make adjustments as that is your primary function thertefore you are unable to do your job. Companies have sneaky ways of working, similar to the example I have given this happened to someone I use to work with and although they dont get dismissed they put them in a pool for 6 months where you can search for another job in the company to suit your needs... unfortunatly this pool is a very good way of getting rid of them as many people cant find another job or are secretly discriminated against further and not offered another job and thereofore have to leave after 6 months.

It's such a shame it a US Vs THEM situation... they are human beings after all and it's not as if your manager is paying you out of their own pocket and surely it's harder to take the hard line with you than than to be supportive?

On the female boss note I have had mainly female managers and all off them were poor maangers and chose to bully instead of manage people, the two male managers I have had have been amazing! Most of my female managers had no life outside of the company and my male managers live to work as appose to working to live, it works so much better when work is not the reason for liveing

Yeah, all good points. Particularly true that some managers confuse bullying with a 'management challenge'

I think a lot of (not all!) people that end up in positions of authority secure those positions by having a mercenary or manipulative nature. Some being downright psychotic! It rarely seems to stem from any talent.

It all depends on the size of the organisation. One the size of the NHS can't really get away with most financial/staffing/resource arguments. They would automatically use the, 'he never told us' get out clause though.

So, best just to tell them enough, but not any more detail than I have too. Personally, I don't like the fact that some manager with a personality disorder knows anything about my health...but needs must.

Quite amazing how a few weeks ago all was well, but as soon as a couple of health issues crop up it all changes. I think more so because I'm almost never off sick. Malingerers tend to get treated better and pandered too it seems. I might have to start playing the poorly card a bit more until I'm sorted

I am a HR Manager and have severe OSA.... if anyone wants any advice please feel free to contact me.

Cheers